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Injustice Anywhere is an organization working to bring more attention to victims of wrongful incarceration
Post subject: Injustice Anywhere Main Discussion Thread
Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2012 4:05 am
Site Admin
Joined: Fri May 07, 2010 5:23 am Posts: 1647
Main Forum to discuss the causes, cases and solutions to the problem of wrongful convictions.
LondonSupporter
Post subject: Re: Injustice Anywhere Public Forum
Posted: Thu Jan 05, 2012 11:52 pm
Joined: Fri Aug 20, 2010 1:31 pm Posts: 244 Location: London, UK
I have begun to follow the case of Shrien Dewani. He has not been tried (yet) and is currently home in the UK fighting extradition. I am not yet sure that he is innocent bit I suspect that he is. The case has many of the characteristics of the Kercher case - an overbearing and corrupt police chief, pressure to solve the murder because the victim was a foreigner and the publicity was affecting tourism, lack of credible motive (though the SA authorities have proposed an incredible one), previously unblemished character of the accused, naive and trusting character of the accused "intelligent but not streetwise". I think there is quite a lot to investigate here. This is an interesting article (OK, I know it's in the Daily Mail):
Is it worthy of investigation even though the trial hasn't happened?
wald1900
Post subject: Re: Injustice Anywhere Public Forum
Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2012 12:06 am
Joined: Fri Oct 29, 2010 2:19 pm Posts: 347
LondonSupporter wrote:
I have begun to follow the case of Shrien Dewani. He has not been tried (yet) and is currently home in the UK fighting extradition. I am not yet sure that he is innocent bit I suspect that he is. The case has many of the characteristics of the Kercher case - an overbearing and corrupt police chief, pressure to solve the murder because the victim was a foreigner and the publicity was affecting tourism, lack of credible motive (though the SA authorities have proposed an incredible one), previously unblemished character of the accused, naive and trusting character of the accused "intelligent but not streetwise". I think there is quite a lot to investigate here. This is an interesting article (OK, I know it's in the Daily Mail):
Is it worthy of investigation even though the trial hasn't happened?
I agree completely. I came across this a few days ago and his story has so many of the hallmarks of an "injustice". Does anyone have any deeper details?
I agree with taking this case up until and unless it becomes incontrovertible that Dewani is guilty. The case against him sounds suspicious; there are alternative explanations for all the "evidence" against him and he may not get a fair trial in Cape Town. What a nightmare if he's innocent!
geebee2
Post subject: Re: Injustice Anywhere Public Forum
Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2012 10:34 am
Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2011 6:39 pm Posts: 1259 Location: Gloucester, United Kingdom
Yes, the case does sound very suspicious. Actually it doesn't sound to me like the driver was guilty either, I wonder what the evidence against him was. But I would want to see the other side of the story first, from someone who thinks there is a case to answer.
Edit: I just read the wiki ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Anni_Dewani ). The case still sounds suspicious to me. The story is highly implausible, and it's very plausible that the police have acted improperly.
LondonSupporter
Post subject: Re: Injustice Anywhere Public Forum
Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2012 11:17 am
Joined: Fri Aug 20, 2010 1:31 pm Posts: 244 Location: London, UK
Thanks for the comments. One scenario is this:
The driver was hired at the airport. He may have sussed that the couple have money and valuables. He may have agreed to drive them around, because he could take them to a place where they could be attacked by a pre arranged gang - he tipped them off. This happened but the gang decided that they wanted to rape Anni as well so they threw the guys out of the car. In this scenario, the driver thought he was setting up a robbery (that he could later claim was nothing to do with him) but the whole thing got out of hand and when Anni resisted the attack (or made too much noise and that they were disturbed), so they shot her. It is also possible as you say geebee2, that the driver is innocent as well.
Shrien Dewani's family have hired Max Clifford to help them with publicity but I have not found any 'innocence' websites that could help his cause. The campaign for Amanda and Raffaele took years to get to where it ended up and it is a model in how to campaign for innocence on the internet. Dewani's people should be doing something similar. This forum could be a start. But first we need to see a detailed rebuttal of the prosecution case (e.g. what is with the text messages in the taxi?). At present I am 60% inclined towards innocence but I need more.
Jstanz
Post subject: Re: Injustice Anywhere Public Forum
Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2012 2:04 pm
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2011 2:13 pm Posts: 1733
Hmmm - I'm wavering back and forth on this one. Alot of things are strange on both sides. I'll need more information myself. What was their background like back home? Why hide the payment of the taxi driver with text messages? Even if true that the driver was picking up a surprise gift, Anni would have still known the driver had to be paid for the driving services. Could have still discussed the money in front of her and just don't mention the extra money for the gift......I dunno.
geebee2
Post subject: Re: Injustice Anywhere Public Forum
Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2012 4:31 pm
Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2011 6:39 pm Posts: 1259 Location: Gloucester, United Kingdom
I don't see any solid evidence at all here. It's all witnesses confessing in police custody or plea-bargaining.
( Let's see a tape recording of the interrogation - joke ! )
To prove such an unlikely case, I would want to see real evidence of a substantial amount of money changing hands ( not the money to pay a taxi fare ).
That seems to be signally absent.
There is lots of bluster on the part of the South African's, especially the weasel word "clear", which always means something is totally unclear and there is no proper evidence.
But I have only spent 10 minutes on it, so of course I'm quite open-minded.
wald1900
Post subject: Re: Injustice Anywhere Public Forum
Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2012 5:12 pm
Joined: Fri Oct 29, 2010 2:19 pm Posts: 347
There were some disturbing questions raised in the wiki-article.....however, the Kercher murder has taught me to view such topical wiki-posts with a high degree of skepticism.
Again taking from the Kercher murder experience, it's not up to Dewani to prove his innocence, but for the prosecution to prove his guilt.
It seems, from what little I've read, that the main things stacked against him are the driver's confession and the financial transactions with the driver before and after the crime. I don't know how anyone else here feels, but I harbor a native suspicion about the confession. The cash transactions are troubling, and I'd like to understand better what Dewani has to say about them. I'd also like to know what is customary payment (both amount and method) in the region for such services (tour guide, driver).
geebee2
Post subject: Re: Injustice Anywhere Public Forum
Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2012 6:35 pm
Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2011 6:39 pm Posts: 1259 Location: Gloucester, United Kingdom
I also read this Daily Mail article, that seems fairly balanced
The prosecution case doesn't add up for me, nothing solid there. Maybe the driver was guilty of arranging a robbery ( if those phone records are real ), but the involvement of Shrien still seems highly implausible to me, on the evidence I have heard so far.
Where is the "devastating dossier of evidence" ?
geebee2
Post subject: Re: Injustice Anywhere Public Forum
Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2012 4:31 pm
Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2011 6:39 pm Posts: 1259 Location: Gloucester, United Kingdom
Another thought on the Dewani case ( these things often pop up in my mind hours after I originally looked at something ) - if Dewani was really paying off the driver for carrying out the murder, would he really have done it in such a public place, in full view of CCTV cameras? Hardly. This is evidence of innocence, not guilt.
I'm fairly convinced the prosecution case and evidence (that I have seen) doesn't even add up to reasonable suspicion, let alone evidence that could support a conviction. Just my view, could well be completely wrong.
Sarah
Post subject: Re: Injustice Anywhere Public Forum
Posted: Thu Jan 12, 2012 4:17 am
Site Admin
Joined: Fri May 07, 2010 5:23 am Posts: 1647
LondonSupporter,
Very interesting and intriguing case. I know warning bells go off for anyone following the Amanda Knox case that the confession may have been forced out of him.
anglolawyer
Post subject: Re: Amanda Knox Case Public Discussion Forum 2-8-2011
Posted: Thu Jan 12, 2012 10:52 pm
Joined: Fri Oct 07, 2011 11:40 am Posts: 2816 Location: Surrey, England
While we are looking for new cases for the forum, how about this one (you're not going to like it). Why not go in to bat for the repulsive racists recently convicted of the murder of black teenager Stephen Laurence?
Their names are Norris and Dobson and they are drawn from the most repulsive section of British society: ignorant, aggressive, white racists.
In 1993 Laurence was attacked one night in SE London by 5 or 6 white young men. The attack was entirely unprovoked, lasted about 10 seconds and involved a fatal stabbing. The investigation was so cursory and dilatory that a subsequent public enquiry famously condemned the metropolitan police as institutionally racist. There was an unsuccessful private prosecution many years ago and the law was changed as a result to allow retrials in limited circumstances.
These two were recently retried under this new law and convicted. They might be guilty. But the prosecution case sounded to me like a classic railroad job using almost exclusively forensic evidence (tiny blood spots on clothing and fibre transfer). The defence raised all kinds of issues about contamination and there were certainly some wierd things going on with the storage and handling of the clothes.
Not as attractive as the Perugia case, by any means, but an injustice may have been perpetrated neverheless.
_________________ You may not be interested in strategy, but strategy is interested in you - Leon Trotsky Hey! Nice to see you! What's with the ice-pi ... ? - Leon the Trot
sflicker
Post subject: Re: Amanda Knox Case Public Discussion Forum 2-8-2011
Posted: Thu Jan 12, 2012 11:08 pm
Joined: Thu Oct 06, 2011 5:48 pm Posts: 768
anglolawyer wrote:
While we are looking for new cases for the forum, how about this one (you're not going to like it). Why not go in to bat for the repulsive racists recently convicted of the murder of black teenager Stephen Laurence?
Their names are Norris and Dobson and they are drawn from the most repulsive section of British society: ignorant, aggressive, white racists.
In 1993 Laurence was attacked one night in SE London by 5 or 6 white young men. The attack was entirely unprovoked, lasted about 10 seconds and involved a fatal stabbing. The investigation was so cursory and dilatory that a subsequent public enquiry famously condemned the metropolitan police as institutionally racist. There was an unsuccessful private prosecution many years ago and the law was changed as a result to allow retrials in limited circumstances.
These two were recently retried under this new law and convicted. They might be guilty. But the prosecution case sounded to me like a classic railroad job using almost exclusively forensic evidence (tiny blood spots on clothing and fibre transfer). The defence raised all kinds of issues about contamination and there were certainly some wierd things going on with the storage and handling of the clothes.
Not as attractive as the Perugia case, by any means, but an injustice may have been perpetrated neverheless.
I think this case has been mentioned on TJMK and of course saying AK and RK are guilty. One thing about the Kercher case is so much was leaked to the media that it gave both sides so much stuff to argue about even before the trial. I'm wondering if other cases have as much material so that the case can be analyzed and determine guilt or innocence.
geebee2
Post subject: Re: Amanda Knox Case Public Discussion Forum 2-8-2011
Posted: Thu Jan 12, 2012 11:18 pm
Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2011 6:39 pm Posts: 1259 Location: Gloucester, United Kingdom
anglolawyer wrote:
While we are looking for new cases for the forum, how about this one (you're not going to like it). Why not go in to bat for the repulsive racists recently convicted of the murder of black teenager Stephen Laurence?
Their names are Norris and Dobson and they are drawn from the most repulsive section of British society: ignorant, aggressive, white racists.
In 1993 Laurence was attacked one night in SE London by 5 or 6 white young men. The attack was entirely unprovoked, lasted about 10 seconds and involved a fatal stabbing. The investigation was so cursory and dilatory that a subsequent public enquiry famously condemned the metropolitan police as institutionally racist. There was an unsuccessful private prosecution many years ago and the law was changed as a result to allow retrials in limited circumstances.
These two were recently retried under this new law and convicted. They might be guilty. But the prosecution case sounded to me like a classic railroad job using almost exclusively forensic evidence (tiny blood spots on clothing and fibre transfer). The defence raised all kinds of issues about contamination and there were certainly some wierd things going on with the storage and handling of the clothes.
Not as attractive as the Perugia case, by any means, but an injustice may have been perpetrated neverheless.
I agree. I did look at the forensic evidence, but couldn't decide if it was shaky. Defence claims of contamination didn't sound particularly plausible, but I didn't have sufficient detail. There is a PMF poster who claims some link to the investigation team, which only inflames my doubts. But it's very hard to summon any kind of sympathy for the defendants. There must be more deserving causes!
anglolawyer
Post subject: Re: Amanda Knox Case Public Discussion Forum 2-8-2011
Posted: Thu Jan 12, 2012 11:20 pm
Joined: Fri Oct 07, 2011 11:40 am Posts: 2816 Location: Surrey, England
sflicker wrote:
anglolawyer wrote:
While we are looking for new cases for the forum, how about this one (you're not going to like it). Why not go in to bat for the repulsive racists recently convicted of the murder of black teenager Stephen Laurence?
Their names are Norris and Dobson and they are drawn from the most repulsive section of British society: ignorant, aggressive, white racists.
In 1993 Laurence was attacked one night in SE London by 5 or 6 white young men. The attack was entirely unprovoked, lasted about 10 seconds and involved a fatal stabbing. The investigation was so cursory and dilatory that a subsequent public enquiry famously condemned the metropolitan police as institutionally racist. There was an unsuccessful private prosecution many years ago and the law was changed as a result to allow retrials in limited circumstances.
These two were recently retried under this new law and convicted. They might be guilty. But the prosecution case sounded to me like a classic railroad job using almost exclusively forensic evidence (tiny blood spots on clothing and fibre transfer). The defence raised all kinds of issues about contamination and there were certainly some wierd things going on with the storage and handling of the clothes.
Not as attractive as the Perugia case, by any means, but an injustice may have been perpetrated neverheless.
I think this case has been mentioned on TJMK and of course saying AK and RK are guilty. One thing about the Kercher case is so much was leaked to the media that it gave both sides so much stuff to argue about even before the trial. I'm wondering if other cases have as much material so that the case can be analyzed and determine guilt or innocence.
The same question has occurred to me. I suppose if we told Dobson and Norris's solicitors that a powerful, international justice organisation (er, that's us) wanted to review their case, why wouldn't they hand over the files? What's to lose?
_________________ You may not be interested in strategy, but strategy is interested in you - Leon Trotsky Hey! Nice to see you! What's with the ice-pi ... ? - Leon the Trot
anglolawyer
Post subject: Re: Amanda Knox Case Public Discussion Forum 2-8-2011
Posted: Thu Jan 12, 2012 11:25 pm
Joined: Fri Oct 07, 2011 11:40 am Posts: 2816 Location: Surrey, England
geebee2 wrote:
anglolawyer wrote:
While we are looking for new cases for the forum, how about this one (you're not going to like it). Why not go in to bat for the repulsive racists recently convicted of the murder of black teenager Stephen Laurence?
Their names are Norris and Dobson and they are drawn from the most repulsive section of British society: ignorant, aggressive, white racists.
In 1993 Laurence was attacked one night in SE London by 5 or 6 white young men. The attack was entirely unprovoked, lasted about 10 seconds and involved a fatal stabbing. The investigation was so cursory and dilatory that a subsequent public enquiry famously condemned the metropolitan police as institutionally racist. There was an unsuccessful private prosecution many years ago and the law was changed as a result to allow retrials in limited circumstances.
These two were recently retried under this new law and convicted. They might be guilty. But the prosecution case sounded to me like a classic railroad job using almost exclusively forensic evidence (tiny blood spots on clothing and fibre transfer). The defence raised all kinds of issues about contamination and there were certainly some wierd things going on with the storage and handling of the clothes.
Not as attractive as the Perugia case, by any means, but an injustice may have been perpetrated neverheless.
I agree. I did look at the forensic evidence, but couldn't decide if it was shaky. Defence claims of contamination didn't sound particularly plausible, but I didn't have sufficient detail. There is a PMF poster who claims some link to the investigation team, which only inflames my doubts. But it's very hard to summon any kind of sympathy for the defendants. There must be more deserving causes!
Yes, but that's the thing isn't it? Justice is blind. Even if these guys are guilty, they should go free if the evidence isn't there. Mind you, it would be a PR disaster to take it on. I think there is something distinctly fishy about the case and that's all I'm saying. I have been turned into a forensic science sceptic by Dr Waterbury.
_________________ You may not be interested in strategy, but strategy is interested in you - Leon Trotsky Hey! Nice to see you! What's with the ice-pi ... ? - Leon the Trot
geebee2
Post subject: Re: Amanda Knox Case Public Discussion Forum 2-8-2011
Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 12:05 am
Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2011 6:39 pm Posts: 1259 Location: Gloucester, United Kingdom
anglolawyer wrote:
geebee2 wrote:
anglolawyer wrote:
While we are looking for new cases for the forum, how about this one (you're not going to like it). Why not go in to bat for the repulsive racists recently convicted of the murder of black teenager Stephen Laurence?
Their names are Norris and Dobson and they are drawn from the most repulsive section of British society: ignorant, aggressive, white racists.
In 1993 Laurence was attacked one night in SE London by 5 or 6 white young men. The attack was entirely unprovoked, lasted about 10 seconds and involved a fatal stabbing. The investigation was so cursory and dilatory that a subsequent public enquiry famously condemned the metropolitan police as institutionally racist. There was an unsuccessful private prosecution many years ago and the law was changed as a result to allow retrials in limited circumstances.
These two were recently retried under this new law and convicted. They might be guilty. But the prosecution case sounded to me like a classic railroad job using almost exclusively forensic evidence (tiny blood spots on clothing and fibre transfer). The defence raised all kinds of issues about contamination and there were certainly some wierd things going on with the storage and handling of the clothes.
Not as attractive as the Perugia case, by any means, but an injustice may have been perpetrated neverheless.
I agree. I did look at the forensic evidence, but couldn't decide if it was shaky. Defence claims of contamination didn't sound particularly plausible, but I didn't have sufficient detail. There is a PMF poster who claims some link to the investigation team, which only inflames my doubts. But it's very hard to summon any kind of sympathy for the defendants. There must be more deserving causes!
Yes, but that's the thing isn't it? Justice is blind. Even if these guys are guilty, they should go free if the evidence isn't there. Mind you, it would be a PR disaster to take it on. I think there is something distinctly fishy about the case and that's all I'm saying. I have been turned into a forensic science sceptic by Dr Waterbury.
Looking again, it doesn't really have the typical characteristics of a miscarriage. I find the circumstantial evidence to be reasonably strong, the prosecution case to be entirely plausible, and the defence arguments weak.
I would still like to have more detail - what was the quantity of DNA detected from the blood speck? Were proper control tests done and documented? And I don't understand the fibre evidence ( my ignorance... I just have never researched this ).
But on balance, I don't find the conviction doubtful, without some solid evidence that this is the case.
Jstanz
Post subject: Re: Injustice Anywhere Public Forum
Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 9:19 pm
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2011 2:13 pm Posts: 1733
Does anyone have enough travel experience to make up a list - large or small - of what they would consider to be more prominent travel agencies? If so, please PM me. I am trying to compile a list for the January 15 letter writing campaign for Jason Puracal and I personally have hardly any travel experience. Thanks for any help.
lane99
Post subject: Re: Injustice Anywhere Public Forum
Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 10:10 pm
Joined: Thu Feb 17, 2011 6:25 pm Posts: 66
Dewani is probably gay (which, in this instance, provides a motive) and probably guilty. And, as such, shares much more in common with Michael Peterson than with Amanda Knox.
You want to find a worthy cause to champion, take a look at the framing of Billy Wayne Cope. His is a case that truly shares a lot in common with the injustice perpetrated against Knox.
Unfortunately, though, the Cope case is not as sexy as Knox's was. So I'm not expecting Cope's railroading to ever garner much attention. Which is a real pity. Since the poor man is almost certainly innocent of the absolutely heinous crime he was convicted of.
gompertz
Post subject: Re: Injustice Anywhere Public Forum
Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 12:45 am
Joined: Wed Feb 23, 2011 3:58 pm Posts: 349
lane99 wrote:
Dewani is probably gay (which, in this instance, provides a motive) and probably guilty. And, as such, shares much more in common with Michael Peterson than with Amanda Knox.
You want to find a worthy cause to champion, take a look at the framing of Billy Wayne Cope. His is a case that truly shares a lot in common with the injustice perpetrated against Knox.
Unfortunately, though, the Cope case is not as sexy as Knox's was. So I'm not expecting Cope's railroading to ever garner much attention. Which is a real pity. Since the poor man is almost certainly innocent of the absolutely heinous crime he was convicted of.
Thanks for the suggestion. The Cope case certainly looks like a serious injustice. While Cope's case might not be as "sexy" as the Knox case, that is no reason to ignore it. http://prosecutorialrant.blogspot.com/2 ... homer.html
geebee2
Post subject: Re: Injustice Anywhere Public Forum
Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 7:44 am
Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2011 6:39 pm Posts: 1259 Location: Gloucester, United Kingdom
A little nugget from TJMK concerning the Chief prosecutor who will decide whether to appeal, Dr Giovanni Galati.
Quote:
His office has been investigating corruption in construction related to the Winter Olympics in 2006 and the severe earthquake in 2010.
Is this the ridiculous case against the scientists who failed to predict the earthquake, and who were then put on trial? If so, that gives me little confidence! He has also apparently made unofficial pronouncements about the case before studying Hellmann's motivations document, which strikes me as highly irregular, suggesting prejudice.
I think Raffaele should get on a plane!
Jstanz
Post subject: Re: Injustice Anywhere Public Forum
Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 2:37 pm
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2011 2:13 pm Posts: 1733
geebee2 wrote:
A little nugget from TJMK concerning the Chief prosecutor who will decide whether to appeal, Dr Giovanni Galati.
Quote:
His office has been investigating corruption in construction related to the Winter Olympics in 2006 and the severe earthquake in 2010.
Is this the ridiculous case against the scientists who failed to predict the earthquake, and who were then put on trial? If so, that gives me little confidence! He has also apparently made unofficial pronouncements about the case before studying Hellmann's motivations document, which strikes me as highly irregular, suggesting prejudice.
I think Raffaele should get on a plane!
I agree - Raff said he was going to NY to work on his book. I say he should go NOW.
Sarah
Post subject: Re: Injustice Anywhere Public Forum
Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2012 5:04 pm
Site Admin
Joined: Fri May 07, 2010 5:23 am Posts: 1647
West of Memphis, Official Trailer
This looks fantastic. Really looking forward to it.
Happy new year everyone - I thought I'd share that I've become attracted by another European case - the disappearance of 22 year old French foreign exchange student Ophelie Bretnacher in Budapest in Dec 2008.
In brief, she was walking home from a bar very late 2-3AM during a night in December and was seen on various surveillance videos until she apparently deviated from the logical path - with the only trace of her being her purse and mobile phone were then found on the beautiful chain bridge. 3 months later her body was found in a downstream branch off the Danube, but upstream from the direction of the current arousing suspicion that she never actually fell/jumped from the bridge.
Apparently the Hungarian police are accused by many onlookers of not doing a proper thorough investigation, not sharing all information, and not properly cooperating with the French investigation of the case. Many avenues of investigation are probably long lost - but they are still asking for further witness statements, diatomical analysis (from the Danube as evidence of drowning), and further analysis of surveillance video.
This one does not involve a wrongful conviction, so it doesn't necessarily fit the mission of this site, but involves many elements common to the Amanda Knox case. In this case, it is still unclear if anyone should be accused of wrong-doing and face justice. Seems to me to be an injustice for the victim that there are such blockades to a open and fair investigation.
There seems to have been some diplomatic talk between France and Hungary on the subject - but it didn't seem to go very far. Many are calling this an example of a failure of the European system that needs to be addressed. I suspect unless a new witness comes forward, they find a connection to another crime, or they make political progress for further sharing of information, the investigation is probably at a dead end.
I've been living in Budapest now for a few months and also speak French - so this case has a very relevant intersection of interests for me. The information available on the net is quite scattered and poorly organized - but there is definitely a community of those following the case, mostly from France. I am going to try to make sense of it all and see where I get.
In the mean-time, be assured - I am still here following the latest on the translation efforts for the Hellmann report, waiting for news about the supreme court appeal for the Amanda and Raffaele as well as all their related cases - and the new Injustices Anywhere cases.
_________________ aka. "ForTruth"
lane99
Post subject: Re: Injustice Anywhere Public Forum
Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2012 8:41 pm
Joined: Thu Feb 17, 2011 6:25 pm Posts: 66
gompertz wrote:
Thanks for the suggestion. The Cope case certainly looks like a serious injustice. While Cope's case might not be as "sexy" as the Knox case, that is no reason to ignore it. http://prosecutorialrant.blogspot.com/2 ... homer.html
Program airing today, Jan/21
Today on TLC there is a program (it's actually a repeat of a Dateline episode, I think) on the Cope case. Airing at 6pm in my region (which is Pacific time).
The show is repeated a few hours later, as well.
gompertz
Post subject: Re: Injustice Anywhere Public Forum
Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2012 8:05 am
Joined: Wed Feb 23, 2011 3:58 pm Posts: 349
lane99 wrote:
gompertz wrote:
Thanks for the suggestion. The Cope case certainly looks like a serious injustice. While Cope's case might not be as "sexy" as the Knox case, that is no reason to ignore it. http://prosecutorialrant.blogspot.com/2 ... homer.html
Program airing today, Jan/21
Today on TLC there is a program (it's actually a repeat of a Dateline episode, I think) on the Cope case. Airing at 6pm in my region (which is Pacific time).
The show is repeated a few hours later, as well.
I managed to catch the midnight showing of the Dateline episode. Of all the cases we have been invited to examine, this one, IMO, most closely meets the standards of a clear miscarriage of justice. I am not saying that the other cases mentioned are not worthy of attention, only that I still have some vague doubts in some of those cases. The false confessions that came after Cope repeatedly denied murdering his daughter, the police lying about the evidence, including the results of the lie detector test requested by Cope, the police inducing Cope's wife to trick Cope into another confession, are only the tip of the iceberg. Much here resembles the Knox case, including the finding of the DNA of the real murderer, which did not lead to Cope being exonerated despite lack of DNA of anyone but the murderer. The police simply changed their theory to include the murderer, claiming Cope and the murderer had conspired to rape and kill Cope's daughter. Yet Cope had never met the murderer, James Sanders, and did not mention him in his "confessions." Sounds kind of familiar, doesn't it? The involvement of Dr. Saul Kassin must also be mentioned. Kassin testified for the defense at the trial, yet the judge disallowed Kassin's testimony. Also a letter by Sanders, denying any involvement on the part of Cope, was disallowed by the judge. That's all I can say for now, except to point out that this is a case where our input could make a real difference. After I have gotten some sleep, I intend to join the Facebook cause for Billy Wayne Cope.
Sarah
Post subject: Re: Injustice Anywhere Public Forum
Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 5:25 am
Site Admin
Joined: Fri May 07, 2010 5:23 am Posts: 1647
davelebon wrote:
Happy new year everyone - I thought I'd share that I've become attracted by another European case - the disappearance of 22 year old French foreign exchange student Ophelie Bretnacher in Budapest in Dec 2008.
In brief, she was walking home from a bar very late 2-3AM during a night in December and was seen on various surveillance videos until she apparently deviated from the logical path - with the only trace of her being her purse and mobile phone were then found on the beautiful chain bridge. 3 months later her body was found in a downstream branch off the Danube, but upstream from the direction of the current arousing suspicion that she never actually fell/jumped from the bridge.
In the mean-time, be assured - I am still here following the latest on the translation efforts for the Hellmann report, waiting for news about the supreme court appeal for the Amanda and Raffaele as well as all their related cases - and the new Injustices Anywhere cases.
Hi Davelebon,
Happy New Year to you also! Nice to see you still posting. It does indeed look like an interesting case to follow. Keep us updated.
Sarah
Sarah
Post subject: Re: Injustice Anywhere Public Forum
Posted: Wed Feb 01, 2012 8:34 pm
Site Admin
Joined: Fri May 07, 2010 5:23 am Posts: 1647
Kathryn Schulz: Being Wrong
A great lesson for all of us. We are all wrong at times and the best way to correct our views is to be challenged by others. To welcome it in fact. I know watching the guilter echo chambers I would rather find out I'm wrong and change than not.
The Canadian Broadcasting Corporation has received a 6 page letter from Vanier, which "documents a string of alleged abuses she claims she has endured since Nov. 10 while being detained in Mexico City's Centro de Arraigos detention centre."
She has already been held for more than 80 days under Mexico’s "preventive arrest" laws while authorities investigate what they have called an international plot to forge travel documents and smuggle surviving members of the Gadhafi family to a home on Mexico’s Pacific coast.
_________________ Bill W. Williams
Было бы неплохо знать, если PMF и TJMK сайты управляются обвинение в Перудже, потому что кто еще мог держать такую страсть к таким смешное положение. Я вас спрашиваю?
geebee2
Post subject: Re: Injustice Anywhere Public Forum
Posted: Wed Feb 01, 2012 9:33 pm
Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2011 6:39 pm Posts: 1259 Location: Gloucester, United Kingdom
We need people who disagree with us... it's so true.
That's why the colpevisti sites are so pernicious, by shutting out disagreement, there is no error correction mechanism.
I think there was someone yesterday at PMF.net who was openly proud that they never tried reading the other side of the argument, to prove their "loyalty" to the "cause". That's so mis-guided. To be fair to Michael, letting the innocenti post on Tuesdays shows a glimmer of hope.
Fomalhaut
Post subject: Re: Injustice Anywhere Public Forum
Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2012 3:34 am
Joined: Sat May 07, 2011 2:19 am Posts: 16
davelebon wrote:
Happy new year everyone - I thought I'd share that I've become attracted by another European case - the disappearance of 22 year old French foreign exchange student Ophelie Bretnacher in Budapest in Dec 2008.
In brief, she was walking home from a bar very late 2-3AM during a night in December and was seen on various surveillance videos until she apparently deviated from the logical path - with the only trace of her being her purse and mobile phone were then found on the beautiful chain bridge. 3 months later her body was found in a downstream branch off the Danube, but upstream from the direction of the current arousing suspicion that she never actually fell/jumped from the bridge.
Apparently the Hungarian police are accused by many onlookers of not doing a proper thorough investigation, not sharing all information, and not properly cooperating with the French investigation of the case. Many avenues of investigation are probably long lost - but they are still asking for further witness statements, diatomical analysis (from the Danube as evidence of drowning), and further analysis of surveillance video.
This one does not involve a wrongful conviction, so it doesn't necessarily fit the mission of this site, but involves many elements common to the Amanda Knox case. In this case, it is still unclear if anyone should be accused of wrong-doing and face justice. Seems to me to be an injustice for the victim that there are such blockades to a open and fair investigation.
There seems to have been some diplomatic talk between France and Hungary on the subject - but it didn't seem to go very far. Many are calling this an example of a failure of the European system that needs to be addressed. I suspect unless a new witness comes forward, they find a connection to another crime, or they make political progress for further sharing of information, the investigation is probably at a dead end.
I've been living in Budapest now for a few months and also speak French - so this case has a very relevant intersection of interests for me. The information available on the net is quite scattered and poorly organized - but there is definitely a community of those following the case, mostly from France. I am going to try to make sense of it all and see where I get.
In the mean-time, be assured - I am still here following the latest on the translation efforts for the Hellmann report, waiting for news about the supreme court appeal for the Amanda and Raffaele as well as all their related cases - and the new Injustices Anywhere cases.
Hello, I live in Budapest too and have followed the case from the beginning. In fact, the diatomical analysis has been already done, it was proven that there was water from the Danube in her lungs. A thing arousing suspicion is that there was almost no alcohol in her blood, while many witnesses concord on the fact that she drank several beers that night - had she jumped from the Chain Bridge (or any bridge nearby) right after being caught on the street surveillance cameras, the level would have been much higher. It sure is an interesting case.
Bettina
Post subject: Re: Injustice Anywhere Public Forum
Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2012 2:51 pm
Joined: Wed May 26, 2010 8:04 pm Posts: 112
What about the charges against our friend Frank Sfarzo? [size=150]Some discussion may prove beneficial at this time. I know very little...except our support of him seems crucial at this point.
Jstanz
Post subject: Re: Injustice Anywhere Public Forum
Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2012 4:05 pm
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2011 2:13 pm Posts: 1733
Bettina wrote:
What about the charges against our friend Frank Sfarzo? [size=150]Some discussion may prove beneficial at this time. I know very little...except our support of him seems crucial at this point.
I agree. I think we definitely have to show as public a support of him as possible. We've all rallied behind Amanda and Raffaelle publicly but Frank can easily be forgotten and if he's not in the spotlight, the Perugian authorities will be free to do as they like to him.
anglolawyer
Post subject: Re: Injustice Anywhere Public Forum
Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2012 4:24 pm
Joined: Fri Oct 07, 2011 11:40 am Posts: 2816 Location: Surrey, England
Jstanz wrote:
Bettina wrote:
What about the charges against our friend Frank Sfarzo? [size=150]Some discussion may prove beneficial at this time. I know very little...except our support of him seems crucial at this point.
I agree. I think we definitely have to show as public a support of him as possible. We've all rallied behind Amanda and Raffaelle publicly but Frank can easily be forgotten and if he's not in the spotlight, the Perugian authorities will be free to do as they like to him.
Can someone please say something about these charges Frank faces? I am sorry I am not up to speed but I am also concerned that he should not be facing the Perugian mafia alone.
_________________ You may not be interested in strategy, but strategy is interested in you - Leon Trotsky Hey! Nice to see you! What's with the ice-pi ... ? - Leon the Trot
Jstanz
Post subject: Re: Injustice Anywhere Public Forum
Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2012 4:28 pm
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2011 2:13 pm Posts: 1733
anglolawyer wrote:
Jstanz wrote:
Bettina wrote:
What about the charges against our friend Frank Sfarzo? [size=150]Some discussion may prove beneficial at this time. I know very little...except our support of him seems crucial at this point.
I agree. I think we definitely have to show as public a support of him as possible. We've all rallied behind Amanda and Raffaelle publicly but Frank can easily be forgotten and if he's not in the spotlight, the Perugian authorities will be free to do as they like to him.
Can someone please say something about these charges Frank faces? I am sorry I am not up to speed but I am also concerned that he should not be facing the Perugian mafia alone.
I'm not sure what the charges are exactly and don't want to give misinformation. Hopefully, someone else will respond.
Jstanz
Post subject: Re: Injustice Anywhere Public Forum
Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2012 11:28 pm
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2011 2:13 pm Posts: 1733
I see the Injustice Anywhere site is up and running! How exciting! I'm looking forward to getting to know the site.
I became interested in a case a while back after reading a brief discription of the case on Candace Dempsey's twitter.
This is the case of high school friends Ryan ferguson and Chuck Erickson who are currently serving time for the murder of sports editor Kent Heitholt who was found dead in the parking lot of The Columbia Daily Tribune on Halloween night 2001. He had been beaten with a blunt object and subsequently strangled with his own belt.
For two years Heitholt's murder was unsolved. Some time later Chuck Erickson became of interest to the police when it became known he was talking to friends about being involved in the crime. Chuck Erickson pleaded guilty to second-degree murder, first-degree robbery and armed criminal action and was sentenced to 25 years. Ryan Ferguson was convicted of second-degree murder and first-degree robbery and was sentenced to 40 years after his friend Erickson named him as an accomplice and testified that it was Ferguson who strangled the victim. Ericksons sentence was reduced from 40 years to 25 years in exchange for this information.
Since their imprisonment Chuck Erickson has recanted and now says that he acted alone in the killing of Kent Heitholt.
Some important factors:
* Chuck Erickson maintains guilt but he also provides a very distorted account of events during his interrogation (Seen in the documentary linked above). He seems unsure as to what was used to stranlge Heitholt and seems surprised when informed he was strangled with his own belt.
* Ryan Ferguson has always maintained innocence and was unwavered during his interrogation. He is visibly upset and physically exhausted in these recordings but sticks to his account.
* This was a very messy crime scene. There is no physical evidence linking either of them to the crime scene. There were bloody footprints at the scene and a strand of hair found in the victims hand. Neither could be matched to Chuck Erickson OR Ryan Ferguson.
* The weapon used to inflict the blows to the victims head was never found.
* Witness Dallas Mallory a friend of Chuck Erickson's whom Chuck says he saw and spoke with right after the murder gave a statement confirming this. By the time the case went to trial Mallory denied this encounter and claims he was coerced by authorities, and the said statement was given under duress.
*Witness Jerry Trump who was the janitor at the Columbia Daily Tribune claims to have got a glimpse at two individuals by the victims car where he was murdered. During the investigation he maintained he could not provide a detailed discription of the pair, however during the trial when asked could he identify the individual or individuals he pointed to both Chuck Erickson and Ryan Ferguson. Trump was actually in prison at the time the pair were arrested and claims that seeing a newspaper article with their pictures 'jolted his memory'. Trump has since admitted that he lied during the trial and has signed a waiver to this effect which will be used by the defence in Ryan Fergusons Habeas Hearing this coming April 2012.
* Michael Boyd, a co-worked of Kent Heidholt has become the focus of Fergusons defence team for the 2012 habeas hearing. He is the last person on record to see the victim alive. They are claiming he may be the actual killer. The petition they filed accused Boyd of being a potential suspect but said he was never thoroughly investigated. “Revenge” and a “deep animosity” were cited as motives for Boyd, who saw Heitholt shortly before he was killed in the Tribune’s parking lot in 2001. The petition alleges Boyd had complained to members of the janitorial crew that Heitholt disrespected him in the workplace. Janitor Shawna Ornt said in an affidavit that Boyd seemed obsessed with Heitholt and said his boss would repeatedly criticize his writing and work. This was refuted by fellow sports editor Joe Walljasper who claims no animosity existed between them.
* Ferguson’s attorney, Kathleen Zellner of Chicago, said she believes Heitholt’s DNA and a murder weapon could be in Boyd’s 1991 blue Oldsmobile, which was never searched by police. Efforts to locate the vehicle stumped investigators. Boyd said he exchanged the vehicle for a red van through Enterprise Leasing in St. Louis. His brother, who worked for the business, told Boyd he could get him a good deal, and so the transaction was made. The defense alleges the vehicle identification number has been changed on paperwork.
* There are inconsistencies in Boyd's accounts of the night of the murder as he left to go home around the time that the victim was also left work to go home. This youtube clip which cites numerous interviews given by Boyd to police claims he has changed his version of leaving work early that night 5 times: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cHONDPS6H_o
Well folks, to say this is a complex case is an understatement. There are allot of factors involved here. I think it is blatantly obvious that Ryan Ferguson has been falsely imprisoned and I really hope that he is acquitted. I would have allot of doubts about Chuck Erickson's involvement too. Despite the fact that he has maintained his guilt and gone to great length to do so there is allot that does not add up. His accounts are very distorted and he seemed genuinely surprised when presented with certain facts during his interrogation. He can't account for the weapon he claimed to have used and I found it strange that the prosecutor who was driving him to the crime scene was telling him where it took place. Chuck looks oblivious. His constant reference to it 'being like a dream' also shed some doubt. He comes across a very troubled young man who is not well balanced.
The defence's focus on Heitholt's co-worker Michael Boyd is interesting. Could he be a genuine suspect or are the defence looking to anything they can to profess Ryan's innocence? Surely Chucks recanting would be enough to ensure that. Hope you guys find this as interesting as I have.
Cheers,
Graeme
Bettina
Post subject: Re: Injustice Anywhere Public Forum
Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2012 11:01 pm
Joined: Wed May 26, 2010 8:04 pm Posts: 112
Frank is waiting trial and would prefer we did not discuss his case right now. There will be big news when the time is right.
Jstanz
Post subject: Re: Injustice Anywhere Public Forum
Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2012 1:07 pm
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2011 2:13 pm Posts: 1733
Bettina wrote:
Frank is waiting trial and would prefer we did not discuss his case right now. There will be big news when the time is right.
Thanks Bettina!
MustBeQuantum
Post subject: Re: Injustice Anywhere Public Forum
Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 7:15 pm
Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2011 3:57 pm Posts: 864
Ran into a case a year or so ago in California regarding a teenager who was convicted of murder.
The victim, Pam Vitale, was the wife of an attorney, Daniel Horowitz. The husband, Daniel Horowitz, started some kind of foundation against (!) teenage defendants. Totally odd. Ran into his Horowitz's Wikipedia Campaign PR when I was reading all the MOMK garbage.
Daniel Horowitz has been a rather shady TV lawyer for a while. Scott Dyleski was accused and convicted of the murder of Pamela Vitale. How much of that was PR, I do not know, but that is a case worth a second look.
Sarah
Post subject: Re: Injustice Anywhere Public Forum
Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 8:40 pm
Site Admin
Joined: Fri May 07, 2010 5:23 am Posts: 1647
MustBeQuantum wrote:
Ran into a case a year or so ago in California regarding a teenager who was convicted of murder.
The victim, Pam Vitale, was the wife of an attorney, Daniel Horowitz. The husband, Daniel Horowitz, started some kind of foundation against (!) teenage defendants. Totally odd. Ran into his Horowitz's Wikipedia Campaign PR when I was reading all the MOMK garbage.
Daniel Horowitz has been a rather shady TV lawyer for a while. Scott Dyleski was accused and convicted of the murder of Pamela Vitale. How much of that was PR, I do not know, but that is a case worth a second look.
MustBeQuantum, Thanks for the case. I agree this is worth another look.
Sarah
Post subject: Re: Injustice Anywhere Public Forum
Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2012 6:11 pm
Site Admin
Joined: Fri May 07, 2010 5:23 am Posts: 1647
In the last few days the Jason Puracal case has been getting some very high profile news coverage! This is excellent news! Congratulations to the FreeJasonP Team !!!!
Please everyone spread these links around. Tweet, Share, etc. Lets get the momentum rolling and help bring even more attention to Jason's case.
'I don't think anybody can really appreciate what it would be like to be an innocent person and have your freedom taken away from you with no hope, or very little hope.' the prosecutor 'offered his own opinion as to how a person committing suicide would act' and an opinion about leaving messages. The remarks should not have been made, he said. 'It was a serious breach of the prosecutor's duty to put the crown case fairly before the jury.'
Justice McClellan appeared to criticise the Crown's "killer point", referring to "the illogicality of the prosecution's argument that Mr Wood had 'esoteric knowledge'".He also said, "The suggested evidence of a motive involving Rivkin is so thin that it should never have been left with the jury."
It really makes it so clear that this is a global issue fighting against the worst of human tendencies to judge people by perception. A witch hunt gene? There is a lot of Perugia in Queensland. And Gabe Watson could have easily been another Amanda Knox.
Some lines from the article: Chamberlain was depicted as a remorseless killer, partly because she did not fit the stereotype. She did not weep or show emotion in public. She belonged to a fringe church. Her daughter had an unusual name.
proof of the damage still wrought by sections of Australia's media, an ill-informed public, weak politicians and zealous prosecutors.
There was never any cogent evidence against Watson. He was a patsy, assailed by his former parents-in-law, carved up by the media, pursued by ambitious prosecutors, abandoned by supine politicians and hated by a public that has been hopelessly misled.
There is, now, indignation among journalists and their audiences who have barracked for Watson to be convicted. They should be apologetic.
A media circus that became increasingly frenzied and ridiculous in its ignorance of readily available evidence led to a politically charged attempt to destroy a man who made a poor split-second decision.
He lacked the wit and the courage to rescue Tina as she panicked underwater on a scuba dive in October 2003.
The strongly-built Watson had next to no chance of winning public sympathy. Like Chamberlain, he was largely silent. He did not cry in public. He would not play the media game. He refused to give interviews.
He became a picture of wickedness in a one-sided story propelled by his parents-in-law and their supporters.
The relentless campaign in the media would repeatedly characterise Watson as a cold-blooded psychopath who murdered his bride on their honeymoon to collect a fortune in life insurance.
Thomas went on to pursue a crusade to have Gabe Watson investigated for murder, ultimately resulting in Gabe Watson's 2009 negligent manslaughter plea in Australia. His U.S. murder trial began and ended earlier this month. Watson said he couldn't understand what removing the flowers had to do with Tina Watson's 2003 drowning. "I don't understand what that has to do with what happened in '03. This was a year or two later -- I can't grasp the relevance of that to Tina's death," he said.
Bruce Fischer
Post subject: Re: Injustice Anywhere Public Forum
Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 3:27 am
Site Admin
Joined: Thu May 06, 2010 10:26 pm Posts: 503 Location: USA
Thomas went on to pursue a crusade to have Gabe Watson investigated for murder, ultimately resulting in Gabe Watson's 2009 negligent manslaughter plea in Australia. His U.S. murder trial began and ended earlier this month. Watson said he couldn't understand what removing the flowers had to do with Tina Watson's 2003 drowning. "I don't understand what that has to do with what happened in '03. This was a year or two later -- I can't grasp the relevance of that to Tina's death," he said.
The all time, all weight division, all region champ in wrongful convictions is Kirstin Lobato. There is less chance that she is guilty of this crime than that she assassinated JFK(she was born in 1983) - there is less chance that she is guilty than that I murdered the Lindbergh baby (I was born in 1944) and there is much, much, much less chance that she is guilty than that I killed JFK (I was at a bank teller's window in Washington DC). After a "My Cousin Vinny" type statement clearly not referring to the crime the police were investigating, the police arrested her and never for one second deviated from their preconceived notion that she was the perp. All the forensic evidence pointed in another direction. She passed multiple polygraphs. She had an airtight alibi that she was 170 miles away for a period of time spanning some 15 hours and coinciding with any possible time the crime could have been committed. No motive. No relevant priors. No prior contact with the victim. Too small to have committed the crime. They even offered her a plea bargain for 3 years on a charge of 1st degree murder but she trusted the system. I guess the only person less likely to have committed the crime was the victim himself. A horrible miscarriage of justice. It has led me to be somewhat more restrained in attacking the Italian system because we sure live in a "glass house" when it comes to throwing stones at other countries' criminal justice systems.
Murdoch
Post subject: Re: Injustice Anywhere Public Forum
Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 1:06 pm
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2012 4:07 am Posts: 189
No worries Bruce.
You can find so many things in common with these injustice cases even when one is a murder, another a downing and another a suicide. All 3 were tabloid fodder, all 3 had the victim's father believing the worst yet most illogical and the public buying it. Gordon Wood's sister said something about Tony Byrne along the lines of "we just don't understand why he wants to believe the worst and not that she committed suicide". Caroline's mother had committed suicide and Caroline herself was depressed seeking threatment, yet Tony Byrne believes Gordon Wood ran along the cliff's edge in pitch black and threw his daugther over the edge like a javelin and then took him to the scene to show him where her body was. John Kercher wants to believe 2 people who'd known each other for one week teamed up with the unemployed local thief who they didn't know to kill his daughter for no reason. Millions fell for this, how is it even possible?
The tabloids said Gordon Wood was Rene Rivkin's gay lover yet no proof! Then they said he had insider infomation and she would expose them yet no proof! If you're given a stock tip by someone who's worth tens of millions, it does seem like a sure thing. A bit like being told by a bookie with a good track record "this horse is a sure thing". All they had to say was esoteric knowledge and case closed.
The tabloids said Gabe Watson killed for insurance money. They had been dating for years yet he allegedly took his new wife across the world to kill her for insurance money that wasn't even in his name and wasn't much money anyways. Who came up with this theory but none other than Tina Watson's father who was the beneficiary. He goes public over and over calling him a wife killer and when he snaps and removes flowers from her grave site...... only a killer would do something like that. Just like only a killer wouldn't attend a memorial service, only a killer wouldn't flush someone else's poo in a toilet, only a killer would smile in court seeing her family and friends.
From the wiki article on Tina Watson
Quote:
On July 17, 2010 a leading Australian daily newspaper, The Age, published a complete review of the Watson case "Death on Reef Mystery".[23] The author was award winning investigative journalist Peter Patrick. This is the first media account to contain first-hand interviews from both Gabe Watson's family and Tina's family. Relying on technical experts, the story reports that Gabe was exonerated by the Queensland Court of Appeal of murder but convicted of failing to comply with a previously unused and little known part of the Queensland Penal Code. This is a violation of section 290. He says the court decided to call this manslaughter. The story says the charge amounts to a crime by Gabe of failing to rescue his wife, once she got into trouble. It also explains Tina's extensive history of heart irregularity and the medication she was taking, the morning of her death, including anti-sea-sickness pills. Patrick says that Tina gave a 'no' answer to the medical question at her diving induction, which asked about prior heart disease. He also states that because Watson had been absent from diving for some years, his level of rescue skill would have been that of beginner
Sarah
Post subject: Re: Injustice Anywhere Public Forum
Posted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 8:56 pm
Site Admin
Joined: Fri May 07, 2010 5:23 am Posts: 1647
Great quote from Lindy Chamberlain -- "You don't know what innocence means to innocent people!"
MustBeQuantum
Post subject: Re: Injustice Anywhere Main Discussion Thread
Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2012 4:28 pm
Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2011 3:57 pm Posts: 864
I am putting the link to the following publication here because there was an interesting article about for-profit prisons and an article about the infuriating false work at the North Carolina forensic lab.
As I am following an interest in prison building (bidding wars in Illinois for another prison) and how building a prison can revitalize a local economy, I found this in my search.
Prisons and housing prisoners can be lucrative -- in one way or another.
Chris_Halkides
Post subject: cognitive dissonance
Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2012 6:09 pm
Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2010 10:33 pm Posts: 220
Sarah wrote:
Great quote from Lindy Chamberlain -- "You don't know what innocence means to innocent people!"
Sarah,
I have been reviewing the Chamberlain case recently, and I have been thinking about why public opinion does not turn as completely as it might in cases like these, in which innocence is demonstrable. I think that the problem is one of cognitive dissonance. If one has professed hatred for a person thought guilty of a crime, then one has to admit that one's hatred was misplaced, and perhaps one's judgment was even clouded by animosity or other things. That is not easy to do, and it is psychologically easier to keep believing the person to be guilty.
Claire
Post subject: Re: Injustice Anywhere Main Discussion Thread
Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2012 8:55 am
Joined: Thu Oct 06, 2011 3:19 am Posts: 300
I've just started a tread about the shocking case of Roberto Laudisio Curti, the boy tasered to death by police in Sydney Australia. It's too late to help him, but there's a chance to clear his name, over the 'packet of biscuits' he supposedly stole- as some lunatics seem to think it's justified. We also need to keep an eye on the Australian police during the inquiry, that they don't 'pull a Perugia' and fabricate some evidence.
Bruce Fischer
Post subject: Re: Injustice Anywhere Main Discussion Thread
Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2012 5:47 pm
Site Admin
Joined: Thu May 06, 2010 10:26 pm Posts: 503 Location: USA
Claire wrote:
I've just started a tread about the shocking case of Roberto Laudisio Curti, the boy tasered to death by police in Sydney Australia. It's too late to help him, but there's a chance to clear his name, over the 'packet of biscuits' he supposedly stole- as some lunatics seem to think it's justified. We also need to keep an eye on the Australian police during the inquiry, that they don't 'pull a Perugia' and fabricate some evidence.
Post subject: Re: Injustice Anywhere Main Discussion Thread
Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2012 5:56 pm
Site Admin
Joined: Thu May 06, 2010 10:26 pm Posts: 503 Location: USA
We need your help. As we continue to develop Injustice Anywhere, there is nothing more important to our success than exposure. The website is in full swing, currently consisting of approximately 160 pages of content with hundreds of pages coming in the near future. Google uses various standards to decide where a site should rank in their search. One thing they look at is site popularity. They do this by looking at how many other places on the internet link back to the site. Here is where you come in.
We need you to post our URL's online when you are posting in forums, on articles, etc. Feel free to post the URL anywhere and everywhere you can! You can do this on forums by simply adding the URL to your signature (you can see the URL's in my signature below). Most forums offer signature lines. You can cut and paste the URL into comments on articles and other blogs when allowed.
We are on the right track. Injustice Anywhere is getting good traffic early on and we hope that will continue to build.
Googlebots find these links very quickly and do a very good job of tracking the data. Keep in mind that Googlebots are equally good at detecting sites that have no loyal followers.
The main IA site will promote this forum. If you would like to promote the forum as well, here is the URL for the forum. You can put both URL's in one signature line. Google will see them both. You can add a few dashes to separate them if you like.
Post subject: Re: Injustice Anywhere Main Discussion Thread
Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2012 5:58 pm
Joined: Fri Oct 07, 2011 11:40 am Posts: 2816 Location: Surrey, England
Got it Bruce. Will do.
_________________ You may not be interested in strategy, but strategy is interested in you - Leon Trotsky Hey! Nice to see you! What's with the ice-pi ... ? - Leon the Trot
Bruce Fischer
Post subject: Re: Injustice Anywhere Main Discussion Thread
Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2012 11:04 pm
Site Admin
Joined: Thu May 06, 2010 10:26 pm Posts: 503 Location: USA
Letters Ask DA to Drop Opposition to Criminal Appeal
Kirstin Lobato case -- "LAS VEGAS -- Over a dozen people, including a staff attorney at the most prestigious wrongful conviction center in the United States, have sent letters to Clark County District Attorney Steve Wolfson requesting he drop opposition to an appeal filed by Kirstin Lobato, a woman convicted of voluntary manslaughter in 2006. Another 200 people have signed a petition asking Wolfson to drop the case." [url] http://www.8newsnow.com/story/17279790/ ... nal-appeal[/url]
The tabloids said Gabe Watson killed for insurance money. They had been dating for years yet he allegedly took his new wife across the world to kill her for insurance money that wasn't even in his name and wasn't much money anyways. Who came up with this theory but none other than Tina Watson's father who was the beneficiary. He goes public over and over calling him a wife killer and when he snaps and removes flowers free delivery from her grave site...... only a killer would do something like that. Just like only a killer wouldn't attend a memorial service, only a killer wouldn't flush someone else's poo in a toilet, only a killer would smile in court seeing her family and friends.
From the wiki article on Tina Watson
Quote:
On July 17, 2010 a leading Australian daily newspaper, The Age, published a complete review of the Watson case "Death on Reef Mystery".[23] The author was award winning investigative journalist Peter Patrick. This is the first media account to contain first-hand interviews from both Gabe Watson's family and Tina's family. Relying on technical experts, the story reports that Gabe was exonerated by the Queensland Court of Appeal of murder but convicted of failing to comply with a previously unused and little known part of the Queensland Penal Code. This is a violation of section 290. He says the court decided to call this manslaughter. The story says the charge amounts to a crime by Gabe of failing to rescue his wife, once she got into trouble. It also explains Tina's extensive history of heart irregularity and the medication she was taking, the morning of her death, including anti-sea-sickness pills. Patrick says that Tina gave a 'no' answer to the medical question at her diving induction, which asked about prior heart disease. He also states that because Watson had been absent from diving for some years, his level of rescue skill would have been that of beginner
I definitely think he did not rescue her on purpose and I agree with you that only a a killer wouldn't attend a memorial service and that only a real killer would smile in court when facing the family and friends. That is simply disgusting and I can't believe that such people are out there walking freely taking lives.
Sarah
Post subject: Re: Injustice Anywhere Public Forum
Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 8:02 am
Site Admin
Joined: Fri May 07, 2010 5:23 am Posts: 1647
wkurt wrote:
I definitely think he did not rescue her on purpose and I agree with you that only a a killer wouldn't attend a memorial service and that only a real killer would smile in court when facing the family and friends. That is simply disgusting and I can't believe that such people are out there walking freely taking lives.
Welcome to IA wkurt.
It was a modern day media hunt.
Sarah
Post subject: Re: Injustice Anywhere Main Discussion Thread
Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 8:12 am
Site Admin
Joined: Fri May 07, 2010 5:23 am Posts: 1647
I've become convinced that Ryan Ferguson is completely innocent. The bad news is even his high powered lawyer says that he is running out of chances. Because of the U.S. appeal system, that works against the convicted, his chances of a reversal become more limited all the time. He has a hearing starting on Monday. He has to be granted a new trial. I has to happen.
I also saw a segment about Jason Puracal tonight. His health is wavering. His sister doesn't know how long it will take to get him an appeal. They are seriously concerned that he won't make it. That he will die in prison from health reasons before they can get him an appeal.
I am really feeling the weight of what we are trying to do on Injustice Anywhere tonight. There are so many worthy people who need help. When we know they are innocent there is an obligation and concern for them. How can we be most effective at helping people? Just thinking out loud for a moment. Any attention we bring to a case or a reform will be beneficial, I know we all wish we could do more.
LarryK
Post subject: Re: Injustice Anywhere Main Discussion Thread
Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 9:01 am
Joined: Mon Nov 29, 2010 3:57 am Posts: 291
I'm fully in agreement with you Sarah.
DaveET
Post subject: Re: Injustice Anywhere Main Discussion Thread
Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 1:48 pm
Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2011 1:40 pm Posts: 109
It seems every time I come here, which is just about every day, one or two more equally deserving cases appears out of the woodwork. It really makes you wonder what on earth is going on out there. The UK seems mercifully underrepresented at the moment but I guess that is partly a function of scale. I remember one particularly disturbing example of police corruption in South Wales a while ago which was pretty effectively covered up but a least the innocent parties were released even if know one was made to pay.
_________________ "In God We Trust. All Others Show Data" Andrew von Eschenbach. Former chief of FDA
erasmus44
Post subject: Re: Injustice Anywhere Main Discussion Thread
Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 3:37 pm
Joined: Thu Sep 29, 2011 6:10 pm Posts: 617
DaveET wrote:
It seems every time I come here, which is just about every day, one or two more equally deserving cases appears out of the woodwork. It really makes you wonder what on earth is going on out there. The UK seems mercifully underrepresented at the moment but I guess that is partly a function of scale. I remember one particularly disturbing example of police corruption in South Wales a while ago which was pretty effectively covered up but a least the innocent parties were released even if know one was made to pay.
In the United States, the criminal law system is so massive (2.3 million prisoners) that, as a matter of statistics, it is virtually inevitable that there are a large number of wrongful convictions. It has really become one of our most rapid "growth" industries and has become a major budgetary item at the state level.
Sarah
Post subject: Re: Injustice Anywhere Main Discussion Thread
Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 2:41 am
Site Admin
Joined: Fri May 07, 2010 5:23 am Posts: 1647
In Focus This Week: The Case for Ryan Ferguson
A lack of physical evidence and conflicting testimony from an alleged accomplice has nonetheless resulted in the murder conviction of an innocent young man. A hearing has been set for April 16, 2012. Ryan must be granted a new trial. Learn more about this case today. www.freeryanferguson.com
Post subject: Re: Injustice Anywhere Main Discussion Thread
Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 7:14 pm
Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2011 3:57 pm Posts: 864
Just a notice to everyone --
Facebook is a lost article for me and since I can't even keep up with my own family, I have allowed my pitiful attempt to lapse (and the various changing security rules didn't help either).
There are quite a few cases here that I support, but am not able to comment or sign through facebook. I know I am not the only one, so if there is another option, please let us poor facebook-deprived folk know.
Graeme
Post subject: Re: Injustice Anywhere Main Discussion Thread
There are people like myself who don't have a facebook account that are frustrated at not being able to comment on some of the online articles that implement facebook for their comments section. By forwarding this petition on to as many people as you can you are affording many people who do have facebook accounts the opportunity to share this information. Also remember to check all related articles as not all of them require a facebook account to post comments.
Bruce Fischer
Post subject: Re: Injustice Anywhere Main Discussion Thread
Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 5:47 am
Site Admin
Joined: Thu May 06, 2010 10:26 pm Posts: 503 Location: USA
Sarah and I posted this article on Ground Report tonight.
Ryan Ferguson seeks new trial to prove innocence by Bruce Fischer April 17, 2012
Americans were rightly concerned when Amanda Knox was convicted in Italy in 2009 based upon questionable evidence and a bizarre and improbable theory of the crime. But the Italian system permits an appeal and a new court took a fresh look at the case in 2011, acquitting Amanda Knox and correcting the mistake made in 2009. The American "justice" system is often not as willing to correct its mistakes. If American protestations about human rights abuses in other countries are to be credible we have to begin addressing the manifest inadequacies in our own legal system. The Kirstin Lobato case would be an excellent place to start.
Sarah
Post subject: Re: Injustice Anywhere Main Discussion Thread
Posted: Sat May 12, 2012 12:36 am
Site Admin
Joined: Fri May 07, 2010 5:23 am Posts: 1647
Make sure to watch Nightline FRIDAY NIGHT! It should be interesting!
It should be a great segment. I hope everyone can watch. Notice from Steve about an upcoming Nightline with a case he is involved in:
Steve Moore It's their segment on Jacob Ostreicher and the Bolivian prison in which he is incarcerated. I did a lot of research for this story; and spent three entire days in the prison. Likely, I'll only be on screen for 30 seconds or so, but watch it because it's a fascinating story. Jacob is an innocent American. It's "Midnight Express: Bolivia." The anchor, Terry Moran really lived this story. It was much more than just another 'gig' for him. Of the producer, the anchor and I, two got serious food poisoning, and the third got pneumonia. The prison was an ugly place.
Post subject: Re: Injustice Anywhere Main Discussion Thread
Posted: Sat May 12, 2012 3:44 pm
Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2010 5:26 pm Posts: 37
Amanda Knox claimed she was cuffed on the back of her head twice - leading to her fingering Patrice Lumumba; have I got that right?
Bill Williams
Post subject: Re: Injustice Anywhere Main Discussion Thread
Posted: Sat May 12, 2012 4:08 pm
Joined: Thu Oct 06, 2011 11:49 pm Posts: 1880
DLS wrote:
Amanda Knox claimed she was cuffed on the back of her head twice - leading to her fingering Patrice Lumumba; have I got that right?
It's a "he said/she said" situation at this time. Knox said she was cuffed. All the cops who were there said she wasn't In fact they said she was given rest breaks and served chamomile tea.
There are two things which make me doubt the cops' version. Please note that until recently I believed Knox to be guilty of calunnia against Patrick Lumumba for the accusation, so I have moved on this issue which is only somewhat related to the "cuff on the back of the head" claim.
1) Mignini himself in his CNN interview describes the scene upon his entry into the interrogation room. Whereas he ascribes a different interpretation to what he sees, it is clear that Knox is in distress. It is clear, even in Mignini's version, that this was a typical Italian interrogation - perhaps not to the level that Lumumba himself was to endure in the hours to come, but it was enough to cause the distress that even Mignini reports. In short, Mignini's own description tends to confirm Knox, and not the gentle almost apologetic questioning the cops claimed they engaged in, with their trial testimony.
2) The fact that this was not videotaped, or that the videotapes have been suppressed, cannot be overstated. Regardless of the nature of the interrogation leading up to the 1:45 memorandum which Knox signed - Mignini himself says he intervenes at 1:45 am, quoting the very law that needed to be followed from then onwards. It was the whole reason for stopping the interrogation at 1:45 am! This is acc. to Mignini himself. The law Mignini quotes includes the necessity for Knox having a lawyer and includes the legal requirement to hav this videotaped, precisely so that you and I would not be arguing 4 1/2 years later about what had happened.
Given that the ILE failed in their legal requirement, there is only one remaining witness to the interrogation who is at all credible. Amanda Knox.
Regardless of speculation about what the ILE speculated about Knox prior to 1:45 am, or even as some do prior to 10:30 pm the previous eveing, Mignini himself confirms Knox as a suspect after 1:45 am.
Also - where are the videotapes of Lumumba's interrogation? No one, no one, can say that Lumumba was anything other than a suspect when he was interrogated.
Lumumba's own first report of the treatment he received was as a virtual beating and smack-down. The insults and fists flew, acc. to Lumumba - that is, until he was freed and began his own calunnia against Knox. Suddenly he too had been served chamomile, and had been almost apologetically, and gently questioned.
So - DLS - yes, Knox did claim what you say she claimed. Subsequent calunnia charges brought against Knox and further on to her parents have had ample opportunity to be lifted into the light of day in court. Yet what happened when Kurt and Edda's court date came around on the very point you raise? The cops did not show up! To the very action they initiated to right this wrong! (I am not making this up.) Knox's callunia on this was scheduled for this month, and then delayed until Feb 2013!
So - DLS - you have this right.
So far, the only one who seems willing to have Knox's claim tested in the light of day is Amanda Knox herself. I think it is a fair interpretation of the ILE's subsequent behaviour that they initiated a predatory criminal charge, one without merit but meant to scare everyone into silence, and that when those charged said, "see you in court", the cowards have been running ever since.
I think that is a fair interpretation. And acc. to Frank Sfarzo the interrogation tapes actually do exist.
If true, what have the cops to be afraid of? It's their word (8 or 12 of them) against one slightly confused American? What could they possibly be worried about by having you and me see the tapes?
_________________ Bill W. Williams
Было бы неплохо знать, если PMF и TJMK сайты управляются обвинение в Перудже, потому что кто еще мог держать такую страсть к таким смешное положение. Я вас спрашиваю?
Merlinovich
Post subject: Re: Injustice Anywhere Main Discussion Thread
Posted: Sat May 12, 2012 4:31 pm
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2012 11:41 pm Posts: 53 Location: Mexico City, Mexico
DLS wrote:
Amanda Knox claimed she was cuffed on the back of her head twice - leading to her fingering Patrice Lumumba; have I got that right?
I don't think Amanda ever claimed that *only* because of the two cuffs on the back of her head, lead her to finger Patrick Lumumba. In fact it seems that she just mentions the types of coercion going on in the interrogation, and additionally to the cuffs, the lying of the police to the witness (her), using multiple interrogators, shouting, suggesting lines of thinking to her instead of hearing her testimony, calling her a liar, asking her to imagine what could have happened, denying her drink, food and bathroom visit, denying her a lawyer, and not taping the interrogation (as required by Italian law) so the jury and judges as well as the public could really get an idea what was going on. A tag-team of 12 was involved in the interrogation, not counting Mignini and Giobbi who mostly were observing and directing.
For these reasons and more, the Supreme Court ordered that the interrogation under no circumstances could be used against herself in the matter of guilt/innocence of the murder case. Why it was then admitted through the back door to be relevant in the Lumumba slander case, is really very curious. Evidence is either valid or non-valid. You can't have it half-way IMHO.
I think that not recognizing from the start she was actually a suspect, and denying her a lawyer was far more abusive than the cuffs and the lack of food or bathroom visits. With a lawyer present, he/she would just have stopped the nonsense when the police insisted on that Amanda must have lost her memory of something important.
Dougm
Post subject: Re: Injustice Anywhere Main Discussion Thread
Posted: Sat May 12, 2012 4:50 pm
Joined: Sat Jan 01, 2011 11:00 pm Posts: 1573
Sarah wrote:
Make sure to watch Nightline FRIDAY NIGHT! It should be interesting!
It should be a great segment. I hope everyone can watch. Notice from Steve about an upcoming Nightline with a case he is involved in:
Steve Moore It's their segment on Jacob Ostreicher and the Bolivian prison in which he is incarcerated. I did a lot of research for this story; and spent three entire days in the prison. Likely, I'll only be on screen for 30 seconds or so, but watch it because it's a fascinating story. Jacob is an innocent American. It's "Midnight Express: Bolivia." The anchor, Terry Moran really lived this story. It was much more than just another 'gig' for him. Of the producer, the anchor and I, two got serious food poisoning, and the third got pneumonia. The prison was an ugly place.
I am continually amazed at the injustice that people can do to other people. As our list of cases grows, it is clear that something really positive will have come from Amanda's case -- shining a light on the large number of innocent people arrested and charged, with little or evidence.
I hope this spotlight finds a way to get Jacob out of there. Steve mentioned that what the authorities want is money, but what else can be done? Do they care about publicity? Maybe if it becomes a bigger pain to have him locked up there vs. the benefits of keeping him?
And that prison is the most bizarre thing I have ever seen! Really eye opening.
Bruce Fischer
Post subject: Re: Injustice Anywhere Main Discussion Thread
Posted: Sat May 12, 2012 5:04 pm
Site Admin
Joined: Thu May 06, 2010 10:26 pm Posts: 503 Location: USA
Dougm wrote:
Sarah wrote:
Make sure to watch Nightline FRIDAY NIGHT! It should be interesting!
It should be a great segment. I hope everyone can watch. Notice from Steve about an upcoming Nightline with a case he is involved in:
Steve Moore It's their segment on Jacob Ostreicher and the Bolivian prison in which he is incarcerated. I did a lot of research for this story; and spent three entire days in the prison. Likely, I'll only be on screen for 30 seconds or so, but watch it because it's a fascinating story. Jacob is an innocent American. It's "Midnight Express: Bolivia." The anchor, Terry Moran really lived this story. It was much more than just another 'gig' for him. Of the producer, the anchor and I, two got serious food poisoning, and the third got pneumonia. The prison was an ugly place.
I am continually amazed at the injustice that people can do to other people. As our list of cases grows, it is clear that something really positive will have come from Amanda's case -- shining a light on the large number of innocent people arrested and charged, with little or evidence.
I hope this spotlight finds a way to get Jacob out of there. Steve mentioned that what the authorities want is money, but what else can be done? Do they care about publicity? Maybe if it becomes a bigger pain to have him locked up there vs. the benefits of keeping him?
And that prison is the most bizarre thing I have ever seen! Really eye opening.
What an insane prison! Seeing the details of the prison was a real eye opener for me. I imagined the prison to by filthy and not fit for human life but I had no idea as to just how different it would be. Jacob is an American trapped in a "community" of criminals like most have never seen.
Post subject: Re: Injustice Anywhere Main Discussion Thread
Posted: Sat May 12, 2012 5:06 pm
Joined: Sat Jan 01, 2011 11:00 pm Posts: 1573
Bruce Fischer wrote:
Dougm wrote:
Sarah wrote:
Make sure to watch Nightline FRIDAY NIGHT! It should be interesting!
It should be a great segment. I hope everyone can watch. Notice from Steve about an upcoming Nightline with a case he is involved in:
Steve Moore It's their segment on Jacob Ostreicher and the Bolivian prison in which he is incarcerated. I did a lot of research for this story; and spent three entire days in the prison. Likely, I'll only be on screen for 30 seconds or so, but watch it because it's a fascinating story. Jacob is an innocent American. It's "Midnight Express: Bolivia." The anchor, Terry Moran really lived this story. It was much more than just another 'gig' for him. Of the producer, the anchor and I, two got serious food poisoning, and the third got pneumonia. The prison was an ugly place.
I am continually amazed at the injustice that people can do to other people. As our list of cases grows, it is clear that something really positive will have come from Amanda's case -- shining a light on the large number of innocent people arrested and charged, with little or evidence.
I hope this spotlight finds a way to get Jacob out of there. Steve mentioned that what the authorities want is money, but what else can be done? Do they care about publicity? Maybe if it becomes a bigger pain to have him locked up there vs. the benefits of keeping him?
And that prison is the most bizarre thing I have ever seen! Really eye opening.
What an insane prison! Seeing the details of the prison was a real eye opener for me. I imagined the prison to by filthy and not fit for human life but I had no idea as to just how different it would be. Jacob is an American trapped in a "community" of criminals like most have never seen.
I couldn't believe whole families are living in there, with their kids and everything! And they have stores and restaurants?? WTH?
geebee2
Post subject: Re: Injustice Anywhere Main Discussion Thread
Posted: Wed May 16, 2012 5:18 pm
Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2011 6:39 pm Posts: 1259 Location: Gloucester, United Kingdom
Sam Hallam released after prosecution decides against opposing his appeal Hallam was jailed in 2005 for the murder of trainee chef Essayas Kassahun but has always protested his innocence
He was apparently convicted on very weak eye witness evidence.
I have not followed the case myself.
anglolawyer
Post subject: Re: Injustice Anywhere Main Discussion Thread
Posted: Thu May 17, 2012 1:43 pm
Joined: Fri Oct 07, 2011 11:40 am Posts: 2816 Location: Surrey, England
geebee2 wrote:
Sam Hallam released after prosecution decides against opposing his appeal Hallam was jailed in 2005 for the murder of trainee chef Essayas Kassahun but has always protested his innocence
He was apparently convicted on very weak eye witness evidence.
I have not followed the case myself.
Sam Hallam - appeal perversely turned down in 2007 because, in England, the system is assumed to be infallible and judges regard themselves as above the law and Hallam was part of the worthless working class.
Nyki Kish - a squeegee girl/pan-handler/anarchist living rough in Toronto, part of 'a scourge' afflicting the city, convicted of murder due to conflicting and unreliable eye witness evidence, shoddy police work, social prejudice and judicial arrogance and perversity.
Amanda Knox - the victim of a corrupt legal system in a country in which the public has disconnected itself from the process, no longer cares about the safety of convictions secured there and revels in its ignorance.
Sociology. That's what all these cases are really about - the flawed societies which form the backdrop, each of which throws up its own impediments to justice (which is the same everywhere) and whose fault lines are revealed when tested. If you don't believe that then how about Trayvon Martin?
_________________ You may not be interested in strategy, but strategy is interested in you - Leon Trotsky Hey! Nice to see you! What's with the ice-pi ... ? - Leon the Trot
MustBeQuantum
Post subject: Re: Injustice Anywhere Main Discussion Thread
Posted: Thu May 17, 2012 2:37 pm
Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2011 3:57 pm Posts: 864
The Chicago Tribune (supposedly a very conservative paper) has been very outspoken about various wrongful convictions over the years. Today's editorial is another "confession" case that has been noticed and publicized. Apparently, Daniel Taylor was in custody when the murder occurred but he "confessed" and was convicted. Nineteen years in prison so far.
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